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A Better Life New York
Exploring the Enigma of Remote Viewing: Simeon's Journey from Skepticism to Psychic Prowess, CIA Intrigues, and Quantum Discoveries in Intelligence and Beyond
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Unlock the secrets of the mind as we sit down with Simeon, a leading expert in the enigmatic world of remote viewing and psychic phenomena. Our conversation kicks off with Simeon sharing his intriguing journey, illuminating the path from skepticism to fascination as he discovers hidden truths at the Farsight Institute. With remote viewing’s roots stretching back through history, even capturing governmental intrigue during the Cold War, prepare for stories that blur the line between reality and the extraordinary. For those curious about the historical depth and applications of remote viewing, the documentary "Third Eye Spies" comes highly recommended.
Wander through the early days of remote viewing research as we recount the tantalizing feats of notable figures like Yuri Geller and Ingo Swann. Geller’s psychic prowess left researchers in awe, while Swann's groundbreaking experiments with the CIA set the stage for remote viewing as a formidable tool in intelligence. We uncover astonishing tales of psychic spies, like the mind-bending accuracy of Swann and Pat Price in penetrating the NSA’s defenses from afar. As the veil lifts on the U.S. government’s secret programs, both skeptics and proponents weigh in on the legacy and ongoing mystery surrounding these psychic ventures.
The episode takes a bold step into the realm of quantum effects in remote viewing, where Simeon introduces mind-boggling concepts like the Iran home boom effect, sparking speculation about advanced technologies and national security. As we explore the trials and triumphs of harnessing psychic skills for practical applications, including financial markets and military operations, we invite listeners to ponder the profound implications on human consciousness and the nature of time. Stay tuned as we hint at continued secrecy and speculate on the untapped potential of these abilities, leaving you questioning the boundaries of the possible.
Hello everyone and welcome back to a new episode of A Better Life, new York. You all know who I am. I'm Steve, and today we have Dom back and we have a special guest, simeon. We're here to talk about a topic that we've touched upon in some of our other podcasts, where we talked about the assassinations and stories, and that is remote viewing. Simeon is an expert for lack of a better term. I would say he's an expert. He's interviewed a lot of people and he's here to tell his story. Maybe give a little background how you got into this from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my background's in sociology, statistics and research, so I know a little bit about how to measure outcomes, vec sizes and so forth. So I came across after I got done with graduate and I had been teaching while I took break, and I came across this idea of remote and I was partly curious and skeptical at the same time. So I thought I would take a class in it, which I did at the Farsight Institute in Georgia, just to see. It was an eight-day class and I found I was completely open to any outcome. People were really describing pictures, distant locations in targets that were hidden in folders that there is no way ahead of time that they'd know what was in the subject matter of the session. It seemed that the results sometimes were accurate. In a way. I couldn't understand how it was working. When you're doing science you don't always understand the principle, but you can see that there's results and it showed me there was something going on. I couldn't understand how it was working Right.
Speaker 1:So sometimes in science if you work back home, you get a result. Yeah, they're trying to understand what just happened. So just to get, just for my audience, our audience, maybe give a little bit of understanding of exactly what remote viewing is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is the idea that we have access to information beyond our physical sense. We're taught in school that information comes to our brain, to our awareness, to our consciousness through our physical sense, to our brain, to our awareness, to our consciousness through our physical sense, and other types of information like intuition or spontaneous thinking, not as well understood. So we're taught to think of that as maybe psychic phenomena and we're intrinsically trained to be more skeptical about this sort of information, because it's not. They're critical, it's not as verified as things that are right in front of us that we and we can have a sense of the quantity and the types of information that are coming just because it's accessible to us.
Speaker 2:But in this case, rv is something that people have known about thousands of years. It comes from the years of Patanjali in India, where Patanjali mentioned in his book about this. It was more about how to attain what he called enlightenment, but he said on this path, like part of the art of invading tradition from thousands of years ago, that you would acquire these spectral powers, and he mentions telepathy, precognition, all of the things that we think of as psychic. This would happen on the way to enlightenment. We should ignore them. It's not really what your main focus is, so the idea that we can perceive non-local information about people, places been around for a long time we had the Oracle at Delphi in the Greek tradition.
Speaker 2:So the idea isn't new. But it's new to us in the West because in the 60s, probably even earlier, the federal government found out that the Soviet Union and the Chinese had very strong developed programs in using this type of psychic perception as a weapon and as they were our adversaries at the time, they felt that if the Soviets had this and Chinese communists had this too, we should develop our own RV program to create our own psychic spies in the United States that were associated with CIA and Benson, which is what they did. Starting, we're told it started in the early seventies. It might've started before that. I've encountered Vietnam vets who told me they were trained how to do RFE remote viewing back in the sixties. I don't know who, what the system was or was training them. As far as we know, officially program started in early seven, developed for about 20, 20 and that was with Ingo Swann.
Speaker 3:At Price he provides them, and that was with ingo swan at price he pervoys him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, uh. The way it started is, they weren't even sure if this was real. Now the soviets believed it was real, there were.
Speaker 1:So this is different than manchurian candidate, where somebody goes in and is brainwashed that something alerts something to them. This is actually perceiving something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that someone else is already perceiving. It's perceiving something and this is just for ordinary people to perceive something at a distance which we've all been taught. Don't know how that would work, but the data showed from soviet studies, chinese studies. They had a lot of data. If you look at the declassified CIA documents, they were highly concerned about our adversaries having as weapons Psychic gap. Yeah, if you look at the documents that Russell Targ, who's one of the people developed in our country, he got them declassassified. His son was a lawyer and they declassified them for that movie, third eye spies, which I highly recommend people watch if you want to see one good movie about it where he's in third eye spies. I don't understand. By lance munger. Yeah, you can find it all the streaming services. It goes through the history. They got a lot of declassified documents and all of of these documents you look at it. It all says threat to communism, communication, security, encrypted data, really top secret sort of stuff that you wouldn't want your adversaries being able to see at a distance and possibly know about your military and intelligence efforts. Birds, the kgb, we're told, had 20 different research organizations involved in rv china, something like five extensively developed, plus what we call pk psychokinesis. This is steven, this is being able to influence things at a distance, not just receive the information, but literally affect something. These are highly developed programs. So, yep, they started a program and initially they got Inferm Research Institute, now called Stanford Research International. This is an institute that did classified research for the federal government. In Palo Alto you had Dr Hal Pluroff and Russell Tard, both laser physicists, and Hal had extensive experience working with the US intelligence agencies. He'd worked for Naval Intelligence and NSA. They had said can you tell us if this is real or not? How real is RB, the ability of someone to see something hidden in a folder or in a box that you can't see? So the first person they got out was Uri Geller. Many people have heard of Uri Geller and he was in the US for six weeks. Someone had told them about him. I think it might've been Edgar Mitchell.
Speaker 2:There were some contacts with the Israelis and they were told about this psychic in Israel named Uri Geller and they brought him over for six weeks. It's in the Third Eye Spies book and they had him at the time, before they invented coordinates or folders or anything. They just put things in boxes. Then, yuri, what's in the books and you can see in the Third Eye Spies. So he nails it 10 out of 10 times or nine out of 10 times, there's no question it's a little object or an insect. He's getting it every. So he was the first test of perceiving something that's unseen though right, it's hidden in a box. And this is how they started. They didn't even know the parameters and how well it could work if yuri was in the box. They also had him demonstrate his pk ability. So before ingo swann and Pat Price and other viewers that were more familiar, now they had Jerry Geller. But after six weeks the US government became concerned of the security implication of the citizen Israel. So they sent him back. But he did prove to Targ and Puthoff and he worked with Lawrence a little more lab right in there, also the area. He showed them hey, this person can, blindfolded, have something hidden. He could describe it very accurately. So that got them to say we should look into this more and again.
Speaker 2:This was started from the efforts of Edgar Mitchell. Six men to walk on the floor who had talked about this had a belief this was possible Jim Fletcher, who was the head of NASA at the time, and they got some funding together and then they went to other psychics. The next person they tested had an ad in the paper, mingo Swan, who was local. He was a New York City artist, born in Telluride, colorado. He had done some work with a woman named Gertrude Schmeidler at the City University of New York, cooney, and what he did at the time they had him for this experiment. He came up with this with Gertrude. He would affect these things called thermistors that were sealed in these vacuum bottles. Vacuum sealed bottles. Thermistor can measure temperature changes and changes. He proved and they published a paper that showed that ingo with his mind so this is pk could affect thermistors in the other side of the room at will, making the temperature go up or down. He saw this ad from Hal Puthoff and he sent in the paper that he and Schweidler had published about PK effect on thermistors. And Hal said fine, come on out, let's see what you can do. And so the first thing we're told that they had Ingo do was another PK type exercise.
Speaker 2:They said Ingo, there is something called a cork detector buried below the cement and this was a device they used to for graduate students, highly shielded against vibration from planes or trucks or anything in the room. Very delicate, very accurate, had a sinuous. They said, ingo, put your mind on this. They wanted to see what happened and I've seen the graphs of the results. Hal showed them to every time Ingo put his mind on this. I think it was either a quark detector, magnetometer or something. The sine wave stopped being a sign Three times in a row exactly and put his mind on it. He said he could see it, but it had an effect on the device. It's pretty weird if you think about it. It was disturbing to them because this device was like world-class accurate, should never deviate, and here their mind is making it deviate. So that showed them.
Speaker 2:That was the beginning of the program. They had two people, first Yuri, then Ingo, and it showed them wow, we got two people, we got two experimental results. We can see this is real and that's got the whole program rolling. They realized, wow, this is real. We need to figure out how this works, train people into how to do it. And what was this? This would have been in 72.
Speaker 2:They worked for the government or just worked out of progress funded by the government or no? They were working on a cia contract. This was definitely a contract. They had a million dollars a year or something and not a huge amount, but it's enough to do some basic research and they had ingo stay out there, palo alto months now. Here's what the story is with Ingo. They kept doing what they had done with Yuri. They said Ingo what's in the box. After the initial test they had him view things in a box because nobody knew any other way to do RV. Ingo what's in the box. And as he said, and in some of these documentaries, there was another earlier one before Third Eye, spies, called her mo by chinch novel author researcher ingo said I can put my mind on anything in the trivialization of my ability.
Speaker 2:I think those are exact words. Why don't we do something more interesting than just view things box straight up because someone in there was a natural born psychic? I just say just for the historical record yuri was not a natural born psychic. He had an encounter with an orb in his apartment complex which was witnessed by a neighbor over recently and said I saw it happen. He was running away from what we call a ball of light or ball lightning whatever, and he made contact with him and he went unconscious and fell down and when he came to he had these hours. Just saying how it worked, it's another thing to talk about for another day.
Speaker 2:Ingo, on the other hand, is boring this way in telluride. He had a couple psychic experiences as a kid where he just felt like he was out of his body, the whole universe. Just one of these mantis. They wonder how are we going to view something else? So the first thing, dom, that they came up with him, jan viewing things in a box which he could do just like Yuri little rings or little fruits or objects. They had him view coordinates of a map and they would give him longitude and latitude and say, ingo, what's at the coordinates? And sometimes he would describe things that were so detailed they couldn't see it on their map that they had there. So they, according to Russell Tarr, they went out to the best, best bookstore they could find in the area and got the biggest map they could buy at the time. This is four online maps Red McMallet, yeah, and they got the biggest. And he was always right. They would put this little detail on these maps that were right at those coordinates.
Speaker 3:Didn't he see rings around a planet before?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that might have been at another time. I think that was at a later date because at the time they were just working with math coordinates. So the criticism came out of one of these presentations, from someone at the cia saying how do you know? He's not one of these people with eidetic memory. I can memorize everything on a map there are people like this, just one of these specially gifted people that never forgets and just simply has a measure.
Speaker 2:Remember the entire math, all the logic. So they thought. Once they did criticism, they though how do we? What else do we do? So here's how the story goes. There's two versions of it. Jacques val has told us, and he's like an entrepreneur Silicon Valley entrepreneur and a well-known UFO researcher, by the way, Jacques Vallée.
Speaker 3:He's the guy I had met at Close Encounter. He's a French.
Speaker 2:He's the guy that exactly he's that character. He said that he had discussions with Ingo, thinking maybe the total universe is divided up, like a hard drive on our computers, into addressable memory spaces. If you got the right coordinates of the addressable space in the universe, that's one way it goes. According to Ingo, he was lying in the pool at the apartment they rented for him in Palo Alto and he said, on the right side of his head, at a 45 degree angle I'm using his word something like this right close. This idea came into his head. It was a voice. It said tricord, tricord.
Speaker 2:So he goes back the next day all excited, not just longitude and latitude, but to make up some numbers and associate it with a particular target. He goes in the next day to target and put it up and they say that'll never work. Institute random numbers. How would that work? So he said if you don't do this, I'm quitting and I'm getting bored with this. And he was about to fly back to New York and they said okay, we'll try. So they came up with random numbers and put it on top of a picture and put it in the folder, which is the technique that we use nowadays. And it worked. They didn't think it was going to work. So this is how they went from doing things in a box and things on an atlas to pick a picture of anything, put it in a folder, give it some numbers and only tell the viewer those random numbers. And it worked. And that's how the random coordinates. Was it the location we're talking? Go inside the structures, go underground, describe in detail what's there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you met. He's now passed away but, you met Ingo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. I was living in New York at the time, in 2013. And we knew that he lived downtown and we used to play this game to see if we could just intuitively locate his apartment, because we knew he was lower Manhattan Bowery area, but we didn't know which street cross street exactly. We would go out on our bikes a friend of mine and I. We would go out and say, let's like use our gut feeling, cause I've studied RV since 96. My gut's getting tough. We got within a block of his apartment. We said somewhere around here. Finally, a friend of mine said look, he's not going to be around forever. Here's his phone number. I knew someone that used to talk to him. Someone in Los Angeles Gave me his phone number. I called and I distinctly remember the day he called back. It was over Christmas, 2013, 2012, 2013. And he said hey, I'm up for a meeting. Why don't you come over? Here's my address.
Speaker 2:We arranged a meeting in I think it was January 2013. I came up and he's just a really fun, interesting person to talk to. I gave him a copy of openings and we were planning to come back for dinner. He's someone who really liked to cook and he liked having people come over and shoot the breeze about these topics. I said, ingo, how does RV really work? You're the master. He said we'll talk about that next time you're here. I have an article for you. And we talked about all sorts of interesting things and then I left and at the time he told me that he had what's called walking pneumonia, which is you have it but you're not really expressing the symptoms physically, unfortunately. I'm told after I was there he went and had got a fever and it got worse and within 48 hours he was in the hospital of my visit. I'm told this later happened and he never recovered. So I'm told he lost consciousness and never came out of it.
Speaker 2:I did get to meet him, dom. It was a great meeting. He was a real fun person. I was told he was 80. He was a fun person. He had decades of experience with Harvey and we only had one meeting. I had seen him at the conferences by the way B Harvey, and we only had one meeting. I had seen him at the conferences by the way Berva International. Most of them were held in the Vegas area. He was there a few times also Austin, texas, 2002. My book stand was right next to Ingo's I actually got. That's where I met him in 2002. And this is where we I got to talk to him a little bit, but it was fun being with them and, yeah, that was that was the last time I saw.
Speaker 3:Tell the story of how Pat Price was brought into the program.
Speaker 2:So this is another who's. Pat Price, yeah, and so this Harvey program holds all these interesting twists and turns. It almost seems like fiction. Except it happened. Pat Price was a politician in Burbank, california. He was another natural and he'd said while he was the police commissioner in Burbank the crime rate was very low because he would send slot cars out that were crimes were committed. He just had an intuitive sense and they would have. These people are prevented from having it. It probably happened all the time that people got used to it didn't give it a second thought. So he had already had a good track record contacts, argon and Plotoff, and they test him and he just knocks it out of the park every session. I was told by someone in the DIA program that whatever path you take it to the bank, he rarely missed and his stuff was highly detailed. And so here's one thing that they did with swan and price to prove to the us government that this could work. They had the view initially. They called someone over at the cia and they said can you just give us some? It was Kit Greene, by the way, who was the guy in charge of the strange deaths, cia in the early 70s, medical doctor.
Speaker 2:But the CIA taps on all sorts of phenomena. A lot of what they do is open source. They read articles, buy stuff. They're just absorbing information. This is before internet. Buy stuff, they're just absorbing information. This is before internet's. They're cutting out articles. So shit, cory, as the story goes, just went to guy in the next office and you just give me like a location. I need a location and I'll tell you what. The guy chose his summer cabin in west virginia. They have swan and price view it and neither of them view a cabin. They get this really extensive facility a lot of computers, satellite, issues, code by cold file folders. The code names all related to the game of wolf, like cue ball, and rack them up and name this stuff.
Speaker 2:Name plates on people, yeah, stuff like this. And they don't know what it is. And they come call back Kit and they say we got this. And Kit said no, that's not quite what the target is. It doesn't make sense to me. And Russell said to them too bad, Because the other guy got the same thing. That is what other guy? Because we have this new viewer named Pat Price they know about Ingo and the other guy got it. So he went back, he looked on a map I think he both got the same thing, this extensive. And he looked right over the hill from this vacation.
Speaker 2:And what happened was the NSA Sugar Grove facility which was designed to listen to Soviet satellites. One particular satellite, we're told, which was designed to listen to Soviet satellites. One particular satellite, we're told, that came over at a particular time every day and get as much information from it as they could because it was transmitting back to Moscow. And when they looked at what Price and Swann had written down, they were really disturbed. They had written down code names, file folders, locked and secure vaults. Talk about vertical information here. This is stuff you couldn't make up.
Speaker 2:In fact, the government was so concerned they contacted the National Security Administration and sent out secret service agents or some marshals, to arrest them in Palo Alto for trespassing on government property. So they knew this was going to happen because these guys were that good, they already had proof, they had never left the state of California and it proved to the intelligence establishment that this could be that accurate, Literally reading we're talking about reading words off of desks. Think about the implications of that in what the security establishments thought for completely secure facilities. And here people are penetrating it with their psychic abilities. So that's why they got the remainder of the funding. It kept going for over a decade and a half after that, because they proved, wow, not only can they just be in something like Ingo location, they can actually words and yeah. So that is one of those stories that they, and after that they started really looking at specific military target.
Speaker 3:After that was it just initially a military program, like you learned from Courtney Brown right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I learned from Courtney Brown and later Lind Buchanan, who was also some Civilians, or both military. Courtney was a political science professor who had taken, of course, going back to the history of this it declassified in 1905. Her hearings in Congress. They have Ray Hyman, who's a skeptic, and Jessica Otts, who's a neutral statistician, head of the American Statistical Association, and they have them evaluated. And then there's a show on Ted Koppel.
Speaker 2:They had Robert Gates come over who was director of the CIA at the time, I believe, and Ed May, who ran the program after Targum put off, I believe from 85 till 95, told his bosses the program had been moved to SEIC by another government contractor, frums. And I have talked to Ed May. He would come to some of these conferences and he said they told him you can't go to that couple show, we don't want to be publicly associated with RV. There was a lot of skepticism about it in Congress. You know cuts of budgets, x, x, some people who are associated with the program. Ed May said I don't care, I'm going and saying the other side because it works and I was there when it worked and I'm going to talk about how all the successes Gates talked about all the failures Gate may want and he went anyway. They said he was going to fire anyway and they fired him, but he said it was important to tell the public. So it's declassified, and many fight in the protocols were never classified, Just the particular projects, even some of them to this day. I'd asked about some of the things that they viewed and I was told they still can't talk about some of these human crimes. You can imagine what the military industrial intelligence agencies use. Something like this. Actual information will be classified.
Speaker 2:So then the people that were involved in the program started teaching it. One of them was ed daves, who had been involved with the program. Yeah, he worked at fort mead, though it had been transferred to the program. Yeah, he worked at Fort Meade, though it had been transferred to TIA by that at Fort Meade, and he was like coordinator for the program.
Speaker 2:There were other people that were trained just to be viewers, but Ed knew enough from the program to teach it and some people learned from him. And then other people from the program, like Lynn Buchanan, began teaching it. So Courtney had learned from Ed and then I studied at Farsight. I was a teacher there and I also wanted to see, here's one protocol. Is this the main protocol or were there variations? If you learn it just from one person, you might just get the way they did it, and I learned that there were other variations and that's what I learned from working with Courtney and Ed. So I had a couple of teachers and teachers, and now all of these people who have been involved in the program most of them have come forward that we know about.
Speaker 3:How many viewers would you say that the government was using in the 70s and 80s? It?
Speaker 2:seemed to be, from my experience, maybe 15 to 20. There were different people trained at different times People like David Morehouse. There was someone named Paul Smith. All these people have their own courses in it and audit and other viewers. Some of them I think some of them came forward later on didn't know about initially because they were still active duty. They've retired since then. So they've come to the conferences and then we're told there's still some.
Speaker 2:Dale Grapp is another person that was a viewer that later went to run. He worked for foreign technology Patterson and they were responsible for developing the stealth aircraft and Dale and I talked to him extensively, developed the technology to make the stealth aircraft invisible to Soviet radar, other radar systems and combining signal with knowing certain ways to make it seem really small. He went around that he was actually a viewer. Now this is an interesting project he was involved with. You may have heard of this.
Speaker 2:In the late 70s, under the carter administration, there was a libyan pilot that defected with a Soviet bomber and ditched the plane over what's now called Democratic Republic of the Congo I think it was called Zaire, maybe that's the name it is now and they couldn't see the point. They wanted the plane. The US military organization wanted to get the electronics. It was like a Badger bomber or something like that. They wanted that electronics back. They couldn't see it because it was like a badger bomber or something like that. They wanted that electronics back. They couldn't see it because it was buried below a rainforest. It's a huge rainforest even to this day. So they you know desperation.
Speaker 2:Someone said why don't we try their well viewers? So they had one viewer, a woman I don't know her name, over at sri look at it. And dale graph was another viewer. I think this is public knowledge. Now, over at Reg, pat Carter's actually talked about it. Carter's talked about it. They didn't mention the names, but I know the inside of this. So the woman gets. Dale got something like it's next to a red stream, which would suggest iron rich stream, and I think the woman got the location and the queue. I asked dale what were you told ahead of time? How much information are you getting right? Dale said he was given plane, went down somewhere in africa. That's it. Africa is a big place and they send in the delta force team where the location is and they're looking for a red stream. Find the play.
Speaker 2:They find the plane adam, and so carter didn't that native help them running with a piece of an aircraft from a distance and I told them what's the help. Yeah, and they're right on it. Based on these rv results and carter awards a medal of honor to the program, to dale in particular. Now, according to the story that dale told me, his because this remote view program is organized as a special access program, which means it's horizontally organized, not vertically. People can know about it in different branches in the military, he tells they don't tell their commanders how to bring what else you need to know.
Speaker 2:according to dale, his bosses were ticked off at him at Wright-Patt that he's involved in a special access program. That's his ego and they didn't know. They're Wright-Patterson and they should know everything. They don't know about this because it's a special access program. So he.
Speaker 2:That's the way it looks. So they're ticked off at him and they don't let him go to Washington to get the medal. Broke Carter, imagine that they block him because he can't leave. I think he ends up getting fired over this. But it turned into a good thing because he gets selected to run the program for a while and he developed another protocol, which is using dream time to view things, having a target set up while you're sleeping, and then write it down as you. He's written some books. One of them is called Trax. It's a very good book about that. So there are different people involved at different times and they some of them go on to teach this and it starts, and so I learned it in 96, a year after it's declassified. A lot of it, as I said, was declassified, but some of those programs, to this day you won't, you still can't find out what they were actually looking at. It's still considered sensitive.
Speaker 3:If you had to guess, would you think that some parts of the government are still using viewers for special issues?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm told. So this question comes up in all the conferences and the people who were involved in it don't know anymore if that's true because, again, special access programs need to know. But you would think, given that this is very inexpensive to do, I'm taking my classes. I had a class in New York City in 2009. Don was there. You can see, it's very inexpensive. You get a target, you teach some of the protocols. They don't need much If you can have satellites or human intelligence, or it's not a lot of people too, so you can keep it quiet, not a lot of people, and you can get a lot of information and you don't have much to lose.
Speaker 2:And then you can verify it with 10, if my person's on target, maybe if the rest of the session looks accurate.
Speaker 2:Maybe the other stuff they're getting that you can't confirm is also accurate. You would think it's still being used Now. I'm told that the name of what it's called now the name's been changed from remote to psionics. We are told this because there's been a lot of information coming forth about the UFO programs, and we'll talk about that in other times. Ufo programs and we'll talk about that in other times. Sap, atib, people like Lou Elizondo who have been coming forward recently. I've met some people.
Speaker 1:It's certainly been in the news, this deep state thing we're not going to tell you a lot of stuff about it all of a sudden, yeah, and there was that New York Times article in 2017.
Speaker 2:So here's how RV comes into this. There was a program proposed after OSAP Advanced Weapons Systems Application Program. They give these really esoteric acronyms to hide the true nature of these. Before OSAP, there was something all the advanced theoretical physics group, a book run by John Alexander, a guy out of the army who worked in Los Alamos. They do this deliberately so it doesn't sound like anything to do with UFOs and plausible deniability and no one knows what to look for. When you're doing a request for freedom of information, you have to use words to look for. If you don't know what the words are, they can change the names of these things. They don't call them UFOs. They call them, as the Air Force does now, unmanned aerial systems or unidentified air. They give them these acronyms so that public doing the FOIA request don't even know what to look for. And, by the way, they have another way even to hide it further is just to give the stuff to aerospace tech companies that are not even subject FOIA.
Speaker 2:But there was a program after OSAP you might have heard about this called Kona Blue. It was a leak recently of all this information that's coming forward. Congressional committee created this told the Pentagon to start reporting to them. They had the task force and then called out Arrow, which AERIS aeronautics something research. They're supposed to report back to Congress. One of the things they picked up on was something called that's the code name for this special access program and if you look at these documents, they were going to recreate a remote viewing program. To use this viewing now called psionics to see if they could get information about what's now called unidentified areas. It's been sanitized, they don't call it UFOs anymore, they call them UAPB. They want to look into something like that Exactly, see if we can get to know.
Speaker 2:Kona Blue was not funded, but isn't it interesting? Here we are in 2012, just about 12 years ago, 13 years ago where the state proposes a big budget UFO research program. I still like UFOs. They propose this big scale. This is after Skinwalker Ranch. It's another topic for another day. They proposed this program and one of the. If you look at the time, Strange thing Skinwalker Ranch.
Speaker 2:Strange thing, but they somebody wanted to keep it going, steve, because there's a whole budget proposal called Kona Blue and it includes a remote viewing unit. This came from Senators Ittaway and Ted Stevens and Harry Reid from Nevada. Stevens had this site. That's what got OSAP going. But here are some proposals. It's extensive, multi-page document with obviously satellites and sensor systems, but remote viewers. It's proposed then to use it.
Speaker 2:Did they answer your question, dom, a few minutes ago? I don't know if they're still using it. I wouldn't doubt that they stopped because, again, it's not that expensive to do. You have nothing to.
Speaker 2:Let me just say one thing important about RFE. If the people already work for you, what's the difference? What's the difference? They're already working for you and this doesn't cost as much as a satellite launch and you could get as they did with plane that carter, they recovered the backfire bomber, badger bomber, whatever it is electronics based, surely on two viewers, and I can verify that. I've talked to dale graph and obviously carter talked about it. That was one of the things carter talked about it. Apparently he was holding folder with the name of the program during this press conference or something, and they saw Grill Flame on the folder. It was a special access program. They changed it to Stargator, stargate, to Grill, flame other than other names.
Speaker 2:But this program I guess the one thing about RV that's very important it's useful in context of other types of more traditional information satellites, people, news, all that stuff. If you just do it on its own it can be accurate. But you don't know, you don't have any way to verify it, and Ingo had said he only did verifiable targets. He would have his own. He would do something like was it Jupiter looking for rain? Bring us around Jupiter. And they had. So this is one example of how they used it. Once that program got developed, they would give people targets like oh, we know Voyager's audit. So I remember the Voyager launches it's a big deal with. Dom and I were in high school, we're both from the Serum, which I was more out here. Wow, it was exciting. They have a 7G up, this probe going out to the solar system and it's going past quarks and some mules there, yeah, and on its way it's taking pictures of all these planets. So one of the stops was Jupiter.
Speaker 1:Right, it's using the gravitational pulse to slink down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they use really smart it in different directions. It's legit. Yeah, so the Ingo says. They said the Ingo, what is what's the way you're going to find on Jupiter where they get out there? And he said it's got rings Drawing. These rings, remember, can be used for small scale things like what's in the folder and what's around Jupiter. And he sees ring at the time. Everyone they laugh at him. Come on, we know that Jupiter, jupiter has rings. When Voyager gets there, they find some faint rings. So that's again showing, wow, you got someone that's good at this. And they think I've got examples in here of just what ordinary people can do, just from a class like Dom to that IT, what ordinary people can do just from a class like Dom to that IT. You can see there's the target race car and the person draws race car Just for the audience to look at, or a rocket ship. They draw a rocket ship. This is hold up your books. They don't have any information. This is my bug opening mics.
Speaker 1:Opening mics. People can't get on Amazon. I'm going to get work from me.
Speaker 3:We'll give out my website.
Speaker 2:Indiana. This is, yeah, Opening minds, a journey of extraordinary calories. Crops are both rested and it's got a couple of chapters of my experience with RV. But you look at, take a look at this. We know what this is. Washington mining Right and they draw the Washington of no doubt that they makes RV content. Even beginners can do stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Question has there ever been an analysis as to time and its impact on remote viewing in terms of verifiable events past, present and future?
Speaker 2:There have been targets done in the past. There are targets done in the future. Yeah, and it seems to be accurate, just not in present-day target.
Speaker 3:but other time periods and success rate is pretty equal throughout all of that.
Speaker 2:When you're dealing with the future, you're dealing with probabilities. The future is not laid in stone. That's my belief, based on the viewing data. There's different branches from any future. There's probability, but the way this has proved it's true is something called ARV Associated Remote Viewing where you binary outcomes up and down, stock market up and down, commodities up and down and people that have done this have shown that you can do this and successfully have a higher hit rate than 50%. But you've got to surely guess Right. And even the best algorithms from Wall Street and places that do this professionally are not much higher than 55% or something like that, which is still going to have a win rate over a long period of time. But we're talking over years and years. But the remote viewers were able to get 65%, which, if you're betting over a long time, you're going to make money.
Speaker 2:One guy Targ and Plotoff both had their own groups. They've talked about this. Russell's hardshoop was called the Spook Group. They had an investor and I've spoken to people that were in this and they would. These were graduate students, so they were not allowed to be paid for this, but they would view for this guy and he would invest silver futures, up or down for it, and they made a lot of money for him. I'm told it worked until he came in one day with his gold chains driving his expensive sports car. Then they started being graduates. He said to them guys, this is working so well for me, do it twice a week instead of once a week because you're making so much money for me. Apparently it never worked. The gift because they resented it, because they were not allowed to be paid. Like basketball players on a college they can't pay. But Hal Puthoff used this apparently to raise money for a local Waldorf school and he was working with a dentist or something like this, and they put their money into it and they made enough to build school.
Speaker 2:But I'm told this takes a lot of work. It's not like a magic trick. You just pick. You got to have basically doing up and down target. I'll ask you what are you going to be shown on Friday? Up target, down target. That takes some coordination.
Speaker 2:So a guy comes along recently, greg Kolodzic, who's a long distance athlete, marathon runner calendar on rudder calendar stream sport. It is up his up without any group, solo and he's presented to us and you can see his site is remote, dash v? Um. He created a very simple protocol, even without coordinates or anything, you just site, target up, target down. Make some contrast. Ask yourself, am I going to show myself on friday afternoon? Or down target? You do a little. And he was able to get 65, even 70% rate over 13 years, 5,200 trials and he told us there's better ways to make money. Like, whatever you do, if you spent that much time you'd make more money than you know. You're going to have some misses, but he did prove 65% over 13 years. This is a pretty good success rate.
Speaker 2:Also, they did this in engineering down the list of researchers. The various people down there have tried this just for future prediction and we're talking like a week ahead and I think to me as a former statistician, they show this. Something's going on here where you're actually seeing the future. Let me tell you another type of experiment. It's called prescientious. They called it. They would show you a picture. It could either be really neutral or it could be graphic, shocking or something like that was emotional content. They would measure the galvanic skin response and they found that, ahead of the shocking types of targets which had some violence or sexual content or something like that. They would get a response on the galvanic skin response Meet about a couple of milliseconds before the computer showed you target, and they did this over and over guy.
Speaker 2:Guy named daryl bem did this at cornell, and dean raid, who worked for ions, did this out in las vegas and they've reproduced as many times. Is that some part of you seems to react before you're showing the picture? Even before the computer is chosen, a picture is one completely bland, whether, having emotional content, you would react more to the ones which shows.
Speaker 3:They called it presenting so in the experiment the sequence was not set, it was random from the computer's view as well.
Speaker 2:But you would react ahead of time and that would show and it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, that of the branching timelines that come out of the present you're reacting to it ahead of time. There's a party that knows it before your eyes see it, even if it's just a computer. That's another type of short-term future ARV Associated Remote Viewing. Go out to a week or two ahead. You would beat the odds 50-50,. You'd get more closer to 60-60. Pre-sentience showed that we have an immediate reaction before something happens. So those are two types of evidence that humans have the ability to sense the future. And again, our viewers would have it. Again, it defies what you and I were brought up to believe in school, that there's some sort of sense, beyond physical senses, of knowing what's going on in the future in the presence of. So yeah, I would say there's data, the future. Again, none of this is 100 and even though pat Price might have been the most accurate viewer, most viewers occasionally miss a target. Even Joe McModicle, who was a very highly accomplished reviewer, came out of the Army. I teach this today at the Monroe Institute, virginia. He has said this is half his targets, but the other half are really accurate and there's many cases where he military, soviet military, target stream accuracy. One case he's known for his viewmate. He had this huge shipyard a bit romanced or something or they're Russia. They wanted to know what was in it and he said viewed it. It's the largest submarine ever built and it's different than other submarines because the missiles are ahead of the Connie town. Normally on subs, the missiles I think, holy, yeah, he comes up at this. They say it can't be true, there aren't any subs. Connie town was behind them and they thought it was an aircraft carrier. They come where it rolls out to the North Sea on one of these long tracks and it's a huge submarine, the biggest that the world's ever seen. And then they said you were lucky, you just got lucky gas right. Yeah, he did view it, he described it. Their case is where it's really accurate and I would imagine going back to your question about 20 minutes ago. I would would imagine going back to your question about 20 minutes ago. I haven't imagined they still use anything specific you think are going on right now or there's obviously a lot going on in the world as we're recording this and I don't know of any specifics, but I'm told it's been privatized and again, this is what happens. Advanced technology is the? U government farms it out to bring rations. I am told this happens Recovered UFO crash materials from people that have worked in these programs. Some of them don't want anything, though I haven't said who they are. I've talked to various highly accomplished engineers at conferences in other locations where I speak and they've come up to me afterwards and said that this is all privatized and this could be what happens with Fortune 500 companies and various aerospace companies.
Speaker 2:Now our own senator from New York, chuck Schumer, attempted to pass the Schumer-Rouds bill in the NDMA last year. That's the National Defense Authorization Act that Congress passes every year to fund Pentagon, and they stripped it out at the last moment. But this bill? Schumer must know something and I've asked people how did Chuck Schumer get involved with this? An East Coast senator, how would he get involved with this? How did Chuck Schumer get involved with this? An East Coast senator? How would he get involved with it?
Speaker 2:He was obviously friends with Harry Reid, who was a big proponent of this coming forward. He proposed that anything that was given to the defense contract was now property of the US government under eminent domain and would have to be turned over back to the federal government within 100 days of the passage of the Schumer Rounds Act. Yeah, that's kind of quick death. Kind of quick death. And there's a reason. The people who opposed it in the Senate were those senators that have big aerospace companies in their district and they don't want to give this stuff up because they can develop sociology out of this and there's debate about whether it should be subject to eminent domain or not. These companies put a lot of resources into figuring out how it could work with resources.
Speaker 2:The money probably came from the government anyway the money came from the government anyway, and that's the schumer argument is this came from the government. The resources, the benefits should go back to the public. There's a lot of debate Whether you think this should be open to eminent domain. But I'm just mentioning this example because if RV was being used, I don't think we would know about it because it would be in other black budget programs that, just like these UFO craft retrieval program. Now our listeners, viewers, may say Sim, is that for real? I'm convinced it's for real, having talked to all the people I've talked to and they've described what this material looks like under electron microscope. Super dense technology that we can't even come close to with our current level of scientific development. We have of developing technology that is engineered on the atomic scale, atom by atom, to act like wave guides, interact, brought them back.
Speaker 2:This topic of gravidics has come up recently these so-called drones that have happened over the tri-state area and various bases around the US and other parts. Big discussion whether this gravitic technology exists. According to the engineers I've talked to, they can't figure out how this crash material works. None of them I've talked to have ever said any of these aerospace stuff and figured it out. I'm told it comes down from NASA to JPL Hope I'm not giving too many secrets here To JPL, to aerospace stuff, and they've said guys figure out how it works. There's a black budget side to NASA which a lot of people are surprised, but they do work for the defense, we know satellites are launched.
Speaker 2:There you go and there's a space program, a space program and there's secret launch facilities which I probably shouldn't talk about too much, but they exist in there. So it wouldn't be surprising, dom, that any advanced technology like this that has important ramifications for national security would be developed by aerospace companies, including viewing skills. Now they've developed Ed May. I mentioned to him before someone that ran an SRI that ran the viewing program and Ed May says he was the longest running direct program. You ran it longer you go into SAIC. You ran it longer than even Argon put off in the early days. He said you could put it on a chip, you could develop a remote chip Because he believes they figured out what the physical is. Shit because he believes they figured out what the physical is.
Speaker 2:Some people think it's something called the iran home boom effect, which is a quantum effect proposed 50s where particles can interact at a distance with other fields that don't even radiate out. It could be completely sealed, but there's communication going on. The evidence that supports that idea is how Puthoff, after leaving SRI, created his own company and patents for long-distance communication, the ABFA, what's called vector potential, not ordinary electromagnetic fields like we're used to, potential fields that are in the numbers, imaginary numbers of quantum equations. But the fact is real. It's shown by Konemura in Japan in 1986.
Speaker 2:I forget which company he worked at the time. They proved that this Aronhuk-Bomb effect, which sort of seemed like a spooky quantum effect things in Dracula at a distance, they proved it was real. So some of us think maybe the AV effect is what we're doing when we do our in. Now you have to admit, steve, it'd be cool if we identified the scientific principle. The Russians felt like they had actually developed this enough to create a chip, according to Ed May, and the last time he presented he said he was working with Russian companies or something to develop RV chip, which would suggest it's physical. I'm not sure, given our relations with Russia now, if they've been still working with them that would be considered some sort of security risk to help them develop this technology. As we're recording this, now.
Speaker 1:So what you're saying is it's not just you, but matters interacting with other matter, and it's being almost it's been communicated to something that can record what's on the other end of that matter.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's what.
Speaker 2:Ed may claim Exactly, there's a physical effect and a chip could do it just like a human brain. I'm not sure if this is true, but this is what he told us and if it was going on here that would be definitely classified. I would consider that to have national security. They were concerned what Pat Price could view the Sugar Grove NSA facility. When they asked the Pat Price, how did you do this? He said I just smushed my head into the safe in his imagination, walking down the halls of this Sugar Rose, and he moved into these spaces and looked with his eyes. What was there. Can you imagine? It's accurate. It seems like science fiction.
Speaker 1:But it's true, but it seems like the government would take people like that, throw them in jail so they couldn't talk to anybody else.
Speaker 2:Pat Price had an early death. We'll say this, and there's a lot of speculation. He was working for the intelligence agencies.
Speaker 2:We were told he was viewing Soviet targets every day, or let's say, intelligence organizations. We don't know exactly what happened to him. There is a feeling going on with your previous interview with Dobb, that he was assassinated by the KGB, and Russians who've shown up at these IRPA conferences have said when we're talking in a group afterwards, they're sure that's what happened to him because the KGB boasted about it. But there's disinformation that comes out of former Soviet Union Russia. You can't be sure. He didn't live a healthy diet either. He didn't eat a healthy diet. He had had heart problems. However, we're told there's some weird things that happened. His casket was already sealed.
Speaker 3:Didn't somebody see him like a couple of years afterwards there?
Speaker 2:was some feeling that he was seen in a supermarket in.
Speaker 2:Virginia or somewhere by someone in DC. I swore it was him, so we don't totally know. Yeah, Steve, I would think the answers to these questions is I don't know and nobody knows. Just because I'm suggesting it, it would have a very high level of classification and, as you both know and our viewers know, if you're involved with these aerospace companies and you're involved in national security and secrets, there are very high penalties for breaking any disclosure.
Speaker 2:People I talked to recently who knew about UFO crash patrol and we'll talk about that at another time told me the consequences of talking about what they saw to me would be so severe. This person literally told me they would be financially ruined by the federal government for even mentioning anything beyond the fact that these programs exist, but no specific. Now you've heard people like Tesla Biden in front of Congress recently House Oversight Intelligence Committee, David Krush, Lalo Zondo, others said you hear these Congress people say what did you see? They say I just literally can't talk about it. We have to go into closed this setting skiff and cure compartmentalized information. You've seen people publicly say that because they've signed these NDAs that are very severe, of ever talking about it. This is treason, Treason. And when you're dealing with treason, on very highly sophisticated ways.
Speaker 1:That means you've given up your freedom. It's automatic.
Speaker 2:They don't even have to be tried. This is the speculation. Maybe they could receive the death penalty for talking to us. So they're not going to talk. They're not going to talk, You'll be home. Here's the issue with that. We don't know and we don't even know. Don the answer to your question. Are they still using it? We don't know. For example, I would just assume they are, but if they are, no one's talking about it because it's totally wrong, I think that's maybe a place to leave it right there and say, oh great, Start talking about this remote viewing as things go on.
Speaker 1:Also good to other things you want to talk about from the past. That may work their way into it Good. That may work their way into it Good.
Speaker 3:Very good.
Speaker 2:Was there anything else you want Give your website? Yeah, so I've been teaching it ever since. I have classes people can do if they just want to do it anonymously at their own pace, and I have these classes occasionally. One thing we started I started this line to do is a monthly where we have people at any level and we do a target every month and that's on Sunday nights. If people ever want once a month, the moment people want to join that group pencil training, feel free to contact me. So my website, dot. Thanks for asking it's.
Speaker 2:My blog is newcrystalmindcom. Newcrystalmind. That's just where I post interviews and videos and interesting information. But my website for viewing I just called it Virtual Viewing Go to Virtual Viewing dot. Virtual viewing dot org. You can just see what's available so people can train on their own or they can train with me in classes sometimes or just once a month. Join up. There's other books. You can read about it. My book Opening Minds is just one of many books that have talked about the history of this and again I mentioned Getting Through. Dice Bites is a great place. You can watch that right now. It's a great introduction to the whole subject.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming. It's nice to have all Thanks a lot, dave, interesting.
Speaker 1:Thanks for watching. I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of questions about it. I probably have a bunch myself, but thank you and I thank everybody for watching and listening. If you're listening to us on audio, on podcast, please subscribe and all those things people say. And if you have any questions, there's a link on the audio podcast that you can send me a direct message by clicking on it. I thank you all for listening. I thank you guys for being here, and everyone have a good day.
