History's Agenda
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History's Agenda
Tracking Bigfoot: A Journey from Past to Present with Dr.Simeon Hein
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What if everything you thought you knew about Bigfoot was just scratching the surface of a much deeper mystery? Dr. Simeon Hine, researcher and author, takes us on a mind-expanding journey into the world of Sasquatch that goes far beyond the conventional image of a rare woodland ape.
The famous Patterson-Gimlin film from 1967 remains our clearest visual evidence, showing muscle movements that human physiologists confirm would be impossible to fake with costume technology of that era. But the most compelling aspects of the Bigfoot phenomenon emerge through consistent witness testimonies spanning centuries and continents. Native American traditions describe trading with these beings – typically exchanging salmon for medicinal herbs. Linguistic experts analyzing recorded vocalizations have identified consistent phonemes and syllabic structures that suggest genuine language capabilities rather than animal calls.
Most remarkably, witnesses consistently report these creatures exhibiting what Dr. Hine calls "extended electromagnetic abilities" – most notably, the capacity to become nearly invisible by seemingly "digitizing" into sparkly lights before disappearing. Their extraordinary intelligence manifests through perfect-aim rock throwing and uncanny mimicry abilities, reproducing almost any sound they've heard with perfect fidelity. These aren't behaviors we'd expect from a relict ape species.
Government agencies may know more than they acknowledge. Park rangers and forest service employees have allegedly been explicitly told not to report Bigfoot encounters if they wanted to keep their jobs. The institutional reluctance to acknowledge these beings mirrors how UFO reporting was stigmatized for decades – a paradigm that's finally shifting.
Ready to explore this mystery for yourself? Dr. Hine's work at newcrystalmind.com, his YouTube channel "Fractal Friend," and books including "Dark Matter Monsters" provide deeper insights into not just Bigfoot, but how our understanding of reality itself might need expanding.
Thank you, Hello everybody, and welcome to A Better Life, New York. Today's topic, of course, is Bigfoot, and we have with us again. We're lucky enough to have Simeon Hine Hine is pronounced right. Yeah, Simeon Hine, who, as you know, is, I should say, Dr Hine is a researcher into so many things that we're all interested in. Our last podcast had to do with remote viewing a great response from everyone, and lately he's been or probably a little more than lately he's been researching into Bigfoot. Thank you for being here, Dr.
Speaker 1:Haim. Thanks very much, Steve. Thanks for having me here today hi, thanks very much, steve.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me here today. So the video we just showed is is really just a video from that's been around for a long time. I forget the exact name of it. It's called the two guys name, patterson gimlin, patterson gimlin, and it's gone to great curse. Uh, I think it's from the. It's from a long time, is it 68 or something? 67, bluff Creek, california. So this video has been well known and it's been satirized from everywhere, from the Simpsons to everything. But, though some people don't believe it, they've created this high definition. You know, with all the technology you have and from what I understand I'll let dr hein talk about it more um, that you can see the muscles move and flex exactly how a creature would walk, and it's not somebody in a suit, that's for sure. So, uh, I leave it to you, doctor.
Speaker 1:So I leave it to you, doctor. Well, steve, thanks. Thanks again for having me here. I should add that you know, with the previous time I was on with you and Dominic, we talked about remote viewing. Dominic had taken one of my remote viewing classes. People remember it's this sort of innate ability we have to have non-local perception, coming out of a 20-year government military intelligence program to train psychic spies. I began teaching this back in Boulder, colorado. I was astounded that it really worked, that you could describe a hidden picture that you hadn't seen yet, and I thought it had such positive impacts on people's sense of curiosity and understanding themselves and understanding our world and our universe. I started teaching it in Boulder, colorado, in 1997.
Speaker 1:I started my own company there Mount Baldy Institute and over the years, steve, students in my class who were natives of Colorado told me about their Bigfoot encounters and this isn't something I knew very much about. I had seen that Patterson-Gimlin film in a local Westchester theater here. You know I grew up in this area. I remember going to see a movie with my brother and they had a little documentary trailer, which is kind of unusual in movies. Sure, you'd see previews and things like this, but this happened to be a Bigfoot mini documentary. I think it was about 10 to 15 minutes long and they showed the Patterson-Gimlin film and that would have been for me around 1975. Anderson Gimlin film and that would have been for me around 1975. So I saw that film when I was a teenager and I didn't really know what I was looking at. Over the years I started listening to a show many people are familiar with who probably listen to your channel here Art Bell Show, coast to Coast to AM, as it's now known, and I had a chance to listen to some of their Bigfoot experts. Over the years and based on what I heard there, I thought, if these cryptozoologists as they call themselves, people who study rare animals were correct that this was some sort of very rare North American wood ape, perhaps a relative of Gigantopithecus blackii, which is a huge gorilla that lived millions of years ago in China, and they found one. I think they found a jawbone from it One jawbone and some teeth from China China from, you know, fossilized from two million years ago and various researchers.
Speaker 1:I happen to be within the same building as one of these, grover Krantz, when I went to Washington State University in eastern Colorado, starting in the 80s through early 90s. I got my Ph, my PhD, out there. One floor up I was in sociology. One floor up anthropology was Dr Grover Krantz who, steve, was one of the first academics to seriously study the Bigfoot topic, since that area of Washington, blue Mountains, where I just was a few weeks ago, had footprints and sightings and hair samples, had footprints and sightings and hair samples and he argued this was a real creature and together with a couple other academics and researchers Dr John Bindernagel from Canada, bc, who was a wildlife researcher they concluded this was some sort of rare ape, possibly an ancestor, a descendant of Gigantopithecus. They didn't know, this was for certain, but they just said that's what it would really have to be. It's the only connection we have of any sort of ape that could have come over the Bering Straits a long time ago. So I thought that's what we were dealing with for a long time. So I wasn't all that interested because I thought it was just very rare. It was just some very rare wood ape that you and I would never see Right In the Northwest you know Cascades and maybe there were 1,500 of them total in North America and it was just nothing special because it was just a relic primate Related to us. One of the primates were a primate, but another prosimian that was just had survived through the ice ages. But when I began to talk to the people that took my RV classes who had grown up in Colorado, it didn't really seem to fit their descriptions and the more research I did, the more I found it had a lot more human-like characteristics than you would have expected if it was more in the direction of being a monkey or, you know, ape or something like this.
Speaker 1:One of the witnesses described one of my students described being pulled out of a sleeping bag while camping by himself up north of Boulder, west of Boulder, nederland, in a campground where there were no other people and something unzipped. The tent pulls him out at rocket speeds. He said the G-forces were so strong he couldn't. He was in the foot of the sleeping bag and he's six foot four. He was a former power trooper and it pulled him out 30 feet from the tent, screamed, drops him, pops his head out, nothing there. Another woman described having a telepathic image in her mind upstairs north of Colorado Springs in a house she shared with some other women. She shared with some other women, the woman downstairs in the kitchen at the time saw exactly what my student Barbara had seen in her mind's eye, which was a red face, a kind of red orange haired Bigfoot, and she heard the scream. But somehow the image in her mind was exactly what her friend had seen, which suggested some sort of telepathic overlay, something I'd be familiar with from remote viewing. Anyway, steve, the more research I did, the more it seemed that this wasn't really an ape at all.
Speaker 1:You look at the North American Native American traditions. They talk about their grandparents, grandparents in last century, 20th century, trading with Bigfoot, regularly Salmon for medicinal herbs. It's usually the same trade for the Northwest Coast natives and this is true throughout indigenous peoples throughout the world. They have language, sierra sounds and movies coming out. That was about the Sierra sounds that Ron Moorhead and others. I'm sure you've seen them. Those are kind of chattering, yes, and linguists, scott Nelson and others who've listened to this, who are trained military cryptologists specializing in languages, have told us this is, this is definitely they're phonemes. In those sounds there's syllables. We don't know what they're saying but they're communicating back and forth in this rapid sort of what some people call reverse samurai talk. And whether it's East Coast or West Coast, it always seems to have that reverse samurai chatter speak.
Speaker 1:So this film you showed us just now, the Patterson-Gimlin film, to this day still appears to be one of the best films we have of the creature and, as you can see, it seems to be walking very comfortably on two legs, the way we would walk, but a little more hunched over, and there's some motion in the arch of the foot which is more reminiscent of a human, you know, than of an ape and you know intelligent characteristics.
Speaker 1:Turning to look at the camera, my view is it's a real film.
Speaker 1:I just saw a very detailed analysis by researcher MK Davis at the Oak Ridge Bigfoot Festival in Oregon just a couple of weeks ago, early July, and he showed us the first ever 4K upscaled version of that film that had been enhanced to make it very close to second generation, not the third generation that we're used to seeing, which is copies of copies of copies.
Speaker 1:This has just been a copy of the original copy or maybe a little better. And, as you said, steve, he showed us muscle motion, you know, which human physiologists have looked at and said that's the way real human muscles move, just like that around the legs, the torso. You can see even the film you showed us there, steve the Sasquatch. There has a ponytail, something like a pony. You can see long hair in the back and something like a ponytail which we don't know that. We're not familiar with apes doing that. So a lot of the evidence seems to suggest that the early cryptozoologists and researchers like Krantz and Bindernagel and others were correct to say this is a real creature, special electromagnetic abilities which we can talk about later, more in that direction than, uh, a rare wood ape or anything ordinary that we can easily understand right.
Speaker 2:so I mean not to jump ahead here, but there is some thought process and some of the things I've seen, that this creature has its ability, almost chameleon like that. It's able to be in the woods and blend into its scenery, and how that's done is anyone's guess, but not by the same way that chameleons do. Where they change the color, they have some ability, where they're able to mask their form, and though you do, when you see them. And people have said that there's this displacement of light, almost, and and I find that very interesting because in some ways, if it is related to us in some way, that you know, as we all know from reading Darwin 100 years ago, that these things all branch off into different evolutionary cycles or evolutionary paths, and somehow, if they are related to this, they have become more sophisticated. In some ways, maybe out of necessity, mother nature taking care of its own um, but I I find that very, very interesting surely feeds into the mystery of it all right.
Speaker 1:What you're describing is usually referred to as the predator effect from the movie predator the original virgin had arnold schwarzenegger in it, and there's that creature that comes from another planet to like hunt things here on earth, and it has the ability to become semi-transparent as a way of Now it turns out that effect was created by Paul Hynek, j Allen Hynek's son, j Allen Hynek being the researcher for the Air Force that worked with Jacques Vallée in Project Blue Book, initially to discredit UFOs and debunk them, and he came to the conclusion that something was really going on. It's his son just happens to be his son working as a special effects creator in Hollywood in the 80s. I was listening to an interview with him the other day. I forgot how he said he came up with that effect. He just sort of was thinking through it and I thought it'd be kind of cool to try it out.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what people see around Bigfoot, believe it or not? What people see around bigfoot, believe it or not. Now, as you mentioned, we do have other examples of cuttlefish, even octopus, changing their color, chameleons, I believe. These are called chromophores, if I'm not mistaken, and these are creatures that are able to change their pigmentation or the appearance of their pigmentation. The way the morphos butterfly looks blue, that big blue butterfly, it's not really blue steve, it's. It's using wave guides built into its scale structure and its wings to change the frequency of light so that you only see blue reflected, and it gives it that just like the sky is not blue.
Speaker 2:Okay, we see blue only because that's what's being filtered through it exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:So. Some things look the way they look because they're able to transmit light through them and become semi transparent, and others use metamaterials, biological metamaterials that are smaller than the wavelength of light, to modify the wavelength of light to reflect blue back, but it's not from a dye or anything. As you'll see, in nature, blue is kind of on the rare side. So we have examples from animals we already know and accept of ability to camouflage, hide, change colors quickly. The interesting thing about Bigfoot is, steve, if you use these ordinary animal models, like we've been taught from the cryptozoologists I'm talking not from traditional biologists who even doubt the existence of such a creature. I'm talking people who've gone out on a limb, like Grover Krantz or John Bender Noggle or others, who've said look, we have footprints, we have hair, we have sightings, sounds at night, the howling sounds. It's more than that, because they do seem to have the ability to become transparent right in front of witnesses. Now, I mean you know, from having spoken to me in the previous interview and so forth, I'm a data-driven person. I mean I used to teach statistics. You know people that spend years of their life getting PhDs. You don't just fool around afterwards and believe in anything. So you want real data and we have that in this case.
Speaker 1:We have multiple people saying they saw it go invisible in front of their eyes and I've spoken to them. Steve, I have gone to these conferences, most of them being out West though Bigfoot. Again, to correct another myth it's not just in Washington and Oregon and parts of Canada. It's seen in every state, including Rhode Island and Delaware the smallest states have Bigfoot sightings. But I've spoken to witnesses at these conferences who've said I've never talked about this to anyone before In fact, I've never been to a conference before but what I saw was one go invisible. So you ask well, what did you see? They said it digitized. It became like sparkly lights.
Speaker 1:Now here's the thing this is what all witnesses report all around the world, which makes a good case for that type of evidence.
Speaker 1:These are people that haven't spent a lot of time in the Bigfoot community, but where they're describing is exactly what you heard from a description of a Bigfoot sighting in Russia, other countries, other states. I even spoke to someone just a few months ago giving a lecture in Idaho, and this person and her husband were there and they said we saw your presentation last year and I just didn there and we say they said we saw your presentation last year and I just didn't say anything to you. But we saw one go through our backyard and as we got a little closer it turned into. She said it's hard to describe it like a shimmering, translucent image, a little sparkly, and the husband, they both saw it. So, steve, either all these people are just randomly making this up and they don't even want to be known that's certainly one possibility or there is some real, very different phenomena going on around bigfoot than we've been led to believe, even from the traditional bigfoot research which is interesting right.
Speaker 1:Very interesting. Very interesting, I mean it suggests a life form that has a human-like appearance, or gorilla human-like appearance, something in that direction. Hair covered, huge, human that's developed abilities that you and I never in our wildest imaginations thought that you and I had. We may have heard stories of yogis in India becoming invisible. These are anecdotal stories here and there. They're a little hard to verify. They could be from ancient texts and we might have thought it's some special ability that someone that had spent decades meditating in the Himalayan mountains, maybe, who knows, maybe they developed this, but this seems to be a regular feature of Bigfoot. So, from my point of view as a sociologist, a lot of what this has to do with is inability of our minds, personally and collectively, to accept that there could be other minds, personally and collectively, to accept that there could be other human type creatures on the planet with us that science doesn't really know about and has abilities that outstrip our own human abilities. In other words, maybe we're not the top of the food chain.
Speaker 2:Right. So you know, evolution means evolve, right, you involve to survive in your environment. Evolution means evolve, right, you evolve to survive in your environment. I mean humans don't need to evolve. We are at the top of our food chain, so to speak. We live in our own world. We control our environments, the temperature, the food and whatever. When we have another creature that might have continued to evolve, maybe maybe not, maybe it's always been there and been like that, maybe it was just a small, you know we talk about when we think of evolution and that's the theoretical Eve right, that some female creature, whatever wears in a food chain is theoretically the beginning of all humans and that through the mitochondria cells or whatever we at certain times there's two different lines of prehistoric apes or humans, or whatever you want to call them cavemen that exist in the same time period.
Speaker 1:Right and there's genetic evidence for that.
Speaker 2:Yes, right Genetic evidence, and you know, there are evidence in certain places where the superior one killed off all the others right. So isn't it possible that that in nature, that this other strain who maybe was susceptible to our technology, found a way, or evolved in a way to protect themselves and survive? Right, I?
Speaker 1:don't think that sounds very far-fetched at all. It's typically what happens in any ecosystem where you have new types of species come in. The other species either adapt or they die off, but often they find ways of adapting. You read about this now, as climate change happens, that some species are moving to higher elevations. You find mountain goats and other species of trees and plants. I mean, I read about this in Science Magazine. They're at higher elevations than they used to be. In fact, it's moving up like about 10 feet a year or something I mean on average, which is a lot over a number of decades. So yeah, that really would seem to be one possibility here.
Speaker 1:The Native Americans all of them, as far as I know said that the Sasquatch were the original people here. Before they got here, in fact, when they crossed over the Bering Straits whenever you believe that happened I mean it's getting pushed back from 10,000 years ago, like we were taught in school, to 15 or 18,000 years ago they said they already encountered these ancient ones, the original inhabitants, and it must have been a shock for even the Sasquatch Maybe they weren't here in super large numbers to have hundreds of thousands of other humans show up who were, you know, smaller and weaker but had technology and weapons and things maybe they didn't have. So they probably pushed back a little bit. I mean, I think you and I were mentioning the other day even Leif Erikson, and the Vikings mentioned, I believe, in 900 AD that they encountered tall, hairy, screaming human-like creatures. You have reports from everyone who's ever visited North Americaica of these type of entities. So perhaps over the hundreds of thousands of years, for some reason, they evolved in one direction and you know our species evolved in this technological, brainy direction, um, but they didn't go in that direction. We could be originally from the same ancestor way, way back. Who knows what happened.
Speaker 1:But, steve, I think the big challenge here is academics. In my experience and I mean I come from academia they're very rigid in my view. They don't like to change their stories. They've published and established a fiefdom in their particular knowledge territory and they generally do not like to have that completely upended by younger scientists that come along. Inevitably. This is what happens.
Speaker 2:That happens all the time, right when we have to tell people that the planets don't revolve around the Earth. They actually revolve around the sun. But you know you don't want to believe that.
Speaker 1:So okay, let's kill everybody that says it yeah, you imprison them, you put them under house arrest, like happened to Galileo, for the last 10 years of their life. You burn them at the stake, like Giordano Bruno. I mean, this isn't that long ago in our history and it hasn't changed as much as you and I might want it to change in our audience. It's just we don't burn people at the stake anymore. But we may deny you tenure, we may make it hard for you to be employed, and people have to run their lives and pay their bills and their mortgages. So in my experience, professionals are under a type of blackmail to stick with their tribe of other professionals. The last thing they want to be is ridiculed, because it would make it harder to publish.
Speaker 2:Right Ostracized. Look at Oppen oppenheimer. You know, oppenheimer, during his third his theories, there were a handful of of people that you know kind of believed what it is and he started you know the beginnings of what he thought of in physics in in california. No one else was doing it, you know. And next thing you know they want him to build a bomb, right, so you?
Speaker 1:know, you know I'm slightly related to Oppenheimer. I found out recently that my father's brother married his granddaughter. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, so by marriage I have some connection back to Ralph, go figure, but that is absolutely right, steve. This is what we're up against, the human species is up against is this rigid, dogmatic attitude, and we would all like to believe that scientists and academics are objective, that they're willing to adapt their beliefs to data, to evidence, right to reality. But I'm afraid to say it doesn't happen as much as we would like it to.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of resistance to change and new ideas and new methods of looking at data, and so what you get from the anthropological community towards Bigfoot is more a type of ridicule and a type of ad hominem attacks, not really dealing with the evidence, but just saying finding ways to laugh at it and make snide remarks in a way you might expect from the New Yorker magazine or some of our top newspapers, rather than a serious scientific inquiry. Now you and I know what happens in the long run. The data catches up with society, like it did with leaded gasoline. We don't do that anymore. It can take decades, but eventually the data catch up and people realize we have to make a change. We're seeing this happen right now with the UFO subject, with all these congressional hearings, and there are more of insecure, compartmentalized facilities to hear what they say they've seen, which probably would be quite shocking to the public if they were privy to this type of knowledge. But once it happens in one area that's really been held back for whatever reasons, it seems to me there's a contagion effect. It begins to happen in other areas of knowledge. I mean in your introduction to me it's a very kind introduction People probably wonder how did Simeon go from RV to Bigfoot UFOs crop circles, from RV to Bigfoot UFOs crop circles? It's because you come across witnesses at conferences around those topics who are coming from another subject area, but they feel they'll be around people that are open to hearing about their experiences working for the government and so forth, because they wanna talk to somebody.
Speaker 1:And often people in classified occupations suffer from a lack of communication with any other people. So the time goes by, they want to talk about other people. They're not going to share their classified information, but they want to be around like-minded people. So you begin to realize there's a whole series of classified topics and I don't think it lasts forever, just like the Berlin Wall didn't last forever and came down quite suddenly in 89. I happened to be working in Europe that summer. I saw the beginnings of it, working in Vienna with the East Germans coming over there, and it never stopped and by the end of the year the wall was gone and East Germany had ceased to exist. And no one predicted it.
Speaker 1:So I feel in a similar way that could happen with these topics, because during the length of time I've been alive and you know kind of a thinking person, I haven't seen that much interest in these topics, but I've seen a lot of evidence and the evidence keeps growing and I think you get a very fast reaction. I mean I called one of my books Black Swan Ghosts for a reason. It's like a black swan event, but with a whole subject matter that previously everyone was just sort of laughing about and all of a sudden it could be in your face. So I think that could be true with the Bigfoot topic. Academics haven't been very open to this, even from people in their own fields, because they seem to perceive that they get professional benefits from sticking with the pack and with the rest of their colleagues making fun of it and laughing at these researchers who are serious and probably having fun poking holes in their papers that are sent out for peer review and inevitably the information comes out and I think those people that were laughing won't be laughing forever. They'll realize whoa it really turned out to be real. There are even articles in the New York Times recently another article about UFOs they published that article in 2017, which changed the landscape All of a sudden. They're saying this is something we need to look at a little more closely.
Speaker 1:So I think my view and I could be wrong is that this will happen with a series of topics, because, sort of like in my situation when I found out remote viewing really was a real thing, that people had an innate psychic ability maybe it's very faint, but it's there and I found there had been a classified program run out of defense intelligence agency to create psychic spies, and and I spoke to people who were former Pentagon officials who told me about their knowledge of Soviet psychic feats, including telekinesis ability to move things at a distance that they had witnessed through eavesdropping on Soviet experiments Then you start to wonder well, what else is true that they haven't told us about?
Speaker 1:To wonder, well, what else is true that they haven't told us about? If it was true, about RV, which is just one component of all of the paranormal phenomena we talk about if you could call it paranormal at all Well, what else that you and I have heard about really has a lot of evidence behind it Bigfoot, ufos, ghosts, phenomena like that, even free energy, cold fusion, low energy, nuclear reaction. You begin to wonder whether there was a widespread campaign from various aspects of the federal government to suppress these topics, these topics maybe for reasons they felt justified. They don't want, you know, secrets and new technology getting in the hands of our adversaries before we develop them. I mean, we can understand that, but that our sense of reality has been distorted for probably at least 70 years. That's my view of it.
Speaker 2:Well, there's probably some truth to that. I don't think at this point. We've learned that the government lies to us about various things. Look at the Vietnam War. The Pentagon Papers is a perfect example. How you know, in the opening scene in the movie, the Post McNamara's Secretary of Defense is on the plane saying we put all these troops in, it doesn't make a difference, they're all dying, we're not getting anywhere. And then he walks off the plane and the press is there and he says everything's great, we're really making headway. And he lies to everybody. So you know that that happened. And if you've ever seen the documentary errol errol mars I don't know if you're familiar with his documentaries, but he is a great documentarian and one of my favorites he does.
Speaker 1:He did a movie, a documentary, called the fog of war and it's an interview with mcnamara where he describes how he screwed everything up and basically lied to everyone and looking at it back, he made the mistake, Right, right, and that's a good example, because my PhD dissertation was about how we report, how the news media cover wars and how that's changed over many decades and it's become increasingly manipulated, the information that the public gets, the Vietnam War being the first war where they used mainframe computers to tabulate statistics, right, and they could always make it look like we were making progress incrementally with the numbers. But anyone who served over there you've probably known Vietnam vets could have told you from the beginning they saw as soon as they got there it wasn't winnable, because the morale wasn't there, because the South Vietnamese, you know, just didn't really have the will to do it and there was corruption, right, All amount of corruption and so forth. And by throwing more money and resources and this probably happened in the Iraq wars too by throwing more resources into a corrupt government, you're not going to, still not going to win, so they're going to keep the money and channel it off to their mansions somewhere in Italy. So the thing about that was the more processing media power, information power, statistics we had, the more you could make it look like Vietnam was a winnable situation. So that is the point, is we actually have less access directly to what's really going on, because there's such a big industry now into massaging and manipulating and data mining to create statistics. You've probably seen this in the courtroom, where people can come up with almost any fact you want if you pay some company enough to cherry pick the data and you can take it apart. But you have to see how they did. They have a real objective, unbiased process for creating that information and if there's an agenda there, they're going to skew it in their direction. So this is what's happened with a lot of these topics and we know that there have been disinformation campaigns about these topics from the government just to throw the public off.
Speaker 1:I mean project blue book being one example. I know people that worked in project blue book. They told me all the really good photos of the ufos were put in a different section at at Wright Patterson in another building or another room. They said what I said. What did they look like? The really good photos? They said look well, you know the disks in the and typical UFO shapes. But we didn't show that. We classified it. Even that general at the end of Blue Book. That said Bollander, Carol Bollander, who said that all the really important information bypassed Blue Book and got directly classified so you could have this report at the end and conclude well, we didn't really find anything. But what they should have said is we didn't really find anything from the very small number of reports that we took out of the original data set, which I mean in my training as a statistician, means biased, not valid conclusion, because you're not looking at the whole population of data Right.
Speaker 2:So the reality is it's not that we gave you the wrong answers, that we asked the wrong questions. There, you go and that provided the wrong answers, or should say an answer that really isn't accurate because it doesn't have all the information, and that's why, on a topic like this Bigfoot, we're relying on regular people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're relying on regular people. Yeah, we're relying on regular people.
Speaker 2:And that's what it takes. And you know the only time you're going to get. The better evidence that gets brought to light is the more you'll get somebody from the scientific community. You can't. You know. People always say, well, we're not able to find a body, that somebody would die. But I noticed more recently that there are sightings with younger I mean, it's always the lone Bigfoot wandering around. But now that there's smaller, almost childlike observations or sightings, um and, and I don't recall that, before.
Speaker 1:No, there's more and more. You're seeing videos and photos of families of sasquatch, bigfoot, right together the the young ones. The descriptions of the juveniles, by the way, are very consistent. Where I was in the Blue Mountains in Washington about two weeks ago, I didn't have any direct sighting in the area. We were camping, but some of the people had been coming up there for 10 years every year and I heard about their group sightings of some of these creatures, where it wasn't just one person that saw it, A lot of them saw it. They were able to describe what they saw and they said the juvenile ones do look more ape-like and chimp-like, but they're fast, they're extremely fast, they have like a puppy-like speed, you know in a smaller frame they go down on all fours. They described them coming up and playing with tents and things, which is again a very similar description from campers all around the world that the juveniles will come up and just tweak one of your tent poles or something. I mean I've had this happen, but I didn't look out fast enough to see what was doing this over my years of camping, so I can't say I've had a direct observation.
Speaker 1:But we're having more data come forward, more videos, more photos. It's hard to prove that those are real. You could always. It's easier to computer generate them, but when you listen to the witnesses describe what they saw, you know, just using your gut feeling, it appears that many of them are really describing what they saw and then got the video camera working.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's tons of these on YouTube. People can look at these and a lot of the personally, I'm happy to be proven wrong. A lot of them do seem to me like real footage the graininess or the blurriness. But I think, Steve, where the data is going to come from is the federal government itself, because we have a lot of federal workers that work out, work in national forests, national parks, Bureau of Land Management, and listening to those people and talking to them over the years, they have said in the past that they were told by their superiors, like in the Forest Service, that you know they'll be laughing one moment about the encounter and they'll feel a little better, or someone else saw something, and then the next moment they'll be told and if you say a word about this, you'll be looking for another job.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know that's the unspoken thing.
Speaker 2:Even in the you know, in public sector workers get that from their bosses. That's the way it works.
Speaker 1:So those people will tell you their stories, like at conferences, but they haven't gone public with them, right, well, once those sort of people feel safe. You know, in the UFO subject the Navy and other branches of the armed forces came forward and said we're not going to penalize people anymore for reporting UFOs. They used to when they would come up for their promotional hearings. That could be used against them. Yeah, but the Navy has said at least we will make sure that doesn't happen. I don't know if it's true, but that's what they've said. This would have to happen with Forest Service workers, national Park Rangers and those.
Speaker 1:There was one, what was it? Steve Action Jackson in Yellowstone, the only ranger ever to come forward. He talked about two sightings. I put it in my book Dark Matter Monsters patrolled the very far reaches of Yellowstone up to the Montana area in the northeast corner for poachers and things, which is an issue in those parks out west, especially in the wintertime when there are not a lot of people around. So he would patrol on horseback and he described seeing big creatures on two legs navigate through the trees, very unlike anything he'd ever seen before, with a lot of intelligence, and he reported hearing them howl and so forth and you get a lot of park rangers talking about this. But action jackson was very vocal about this and he wasn't rehired, even though he was one of the most popular rangers in yellowstone, which sends a message to everyone else working there If you want to keep your job, we don't talk, as I have read.
Speaker 1:We don't talk about this at the Green and Brown. They're park service colors. We don't want to scare people, so they'd rather people get the shock of their lives hiking in the backwoods, coming across these tree structures and the juveniles, maybe family or something, and getting a hostile reaction. They prefer that, and even the occasional missing hiker then to, I mean, come forward and just be a little more open about the reality of it. They're still in the mindset though I've been told it's changing a little bit, but still in the mindset of just hush, just don't talk about it.
Speaker 1:Even I'm told they've come across bodies in the course of plowing the roads out and things like this. You know, in the winter, after the winter, the huge snowfalls, and they've come across these and just been told bury it under all the rest of the snow, we don't want to see it back at headquarters. So I think the information is out there, steve just from the federal workers that work in these areas, not to mention all the people, ordinary people, that see these and, I should point out, from the conference in Oak Ridge, we were told that these sightings are increasingly happening in urban areas. I'm not sure why, right, but the bigfoot are coming into suburban and even urban areas. If they do have the ability to cloak or some of them, and I can't quite totally explain it and the percentages here then maybe they're more around than we think and just very good at concealing themselves and maybe there's some advantage for them coming into human-habitated areas, not just staying way out in the fringes and the boonies.
Speaker 2:So tell us something, as we've seen recently. I think you said that you had some interactions, or when you're up there, you have some pictures or something like that.
Speaker 1:I did have some interesting things happen. It's not really proof in my mind, it just raises some question marks of what could have done this. One night I did hear something very fast moving around the tent and it wasn't like animals I usually hear at night, which they move kind of slowly. They don't want to attract attention to themselves from predators, so they kind of walk. You hear what four-legged animals sound like moving through grasses and things, but this was more like a rapid like that right next to the running past the tent. Big Coyotes can do that when they're chasing prey, but it led me to wonder what two-legged thing out there sounds like it's running past your tent at 3 am at those speeds. It was like daytime activity at night. I mean, I looked up animals in the Blue Mountains that are nocturnal and there's not very many that fit the description of what I heard. So that's one possibility. I was told they do run around the tents at night, but I did hear something that sounded like that but I didn't see anything. Another time we went out to a location Now this is very interesting Barb Shoup, who's a researcher in Washington, she was the one that gave this outing and invited me to come along.
Speaker 1:She had filmed with her group about three miles away. They were in this area that someone had seen a juvenile Sasquatch drop out of a tree. So they started going there more and this woman had just gone into this area to turn around and saw something drop out of a tree. So they started going back there. Every time they came up to camp out and they were filming and they actually. There's a guy right next to a tree and he hears something drop down but doesn't see it because it's on the other side of the tree. But from the camera you can see a big hairy arm come out from the trunk and then come back. It's no mistake about it. It's a big hairy arm with a hand and it's on video. So Barb described it as something sliding down the tree like this, you know, like they might be able to.
Speaker 1:Well, we were out there. She wanted to take us back out to where that was filmed and I thought it would be a lot of fun to see where you know, see where this video had been filmed. It's one of the better videos we have of something that could be Sasquatch, unless you think they're like chimpanzees out there and we come back and my peanut butter jar has been, uh, has been opened up and I had twisted it shut. So I imagine raccoons could do something like this, but are they active during the day? And it had left the lid a kind of good distance, you know, a foot away from the jar. So I I mean I guess something could have done that. But it's consistent with the behavior, because when I was at Oak Ridge Festival the next day after the conference had ended the festival and I'm putting those presentations I gave there about my ideas about this, the electromagnetics, ball lightning and condensed matter, physics that might explain some of this. I mean a life form that's with extended abilities, extended electromagnetic abilities.
Speaker 1:We went to this area called the Owl Moon Lab and, by the way, people can see a lot of what we're talking about from what I'm talking about here in that movie, a Flash of Beauty, paranormal Bigfoot. It's a sequel to the first Flash of Beauty movie, bigfoot Revealed, and they had me speaking about some of these topics, the electromagnetics and so forth, coherent matter in Paranormal Bigfoot. So there was a place there, steve featured, called Owl Moon Lab. It's in the Owl Moon National Forest and someone had moved out there and they had seen some Sasquatch evidence and they brought something Toke Johnson back to his area where he was camped and all these strange things started happening, which is not completely unusual for Bigfoot experiences. People bring something back and then they get this sort of contact.
Speaker 1:I was shown a peanut butter jar that someone had left there. It was completely, completely cleaned out, which wouldn't be that strange. But what was interesting about it is it had a very clear thumb indentation in the plastic. I mean, you'd have to have a thumb to do this, uh, I mean, and a very strong one, very strong thumb, because I tried to unkink it and I couldn't with reasonable pressure. And yeah, it's definitely a peanut butter plastic jar with some thumb and something like that in it. A bear wouldn't be able to do that. And this apparently Sasquatch love peanut butter, they love some of the things they don't have out there and they will completely clean out a peanut butter jar. And the reason you know it wasn't a squirrel or something is there's no bite marks. If you've ever left anything outside, even around your home or camping, squirrels come and there's a lot of bite marks and things as they're trying to get it. No bite marks on this, just one big tooth mark, like a big, one tooth size mark. Again, does it prove anything? Absolutely no. I mean there could have been someone that you could come up with counter explanations, but it is consistent with what we've been told.
Speaker 1:Bigfoot do People leave gifts for them on these stumps of trees. They come back a week or two later and it's been opened up and they open it up sometimes just by popping it open with their thumb. It's the quick way to get there. So that is some um evidence that there were things like tree structures out there. Uh, so the Oak Ridge area was a lot. It was very interesting just in terms of seeing one of these so-called gifting sites.
Speaker 1:This is where people leave things and they often find. They come back and the objects have been rearranged, but in an intelligent way, like they leave beads, and then they come back and there's another pattern there. It's part of the lore of Bigfoot research. Now, just because it's lore doesn't mean it's not true. It just sort of has this status of being part of the Bigfoot experience. But maybe that's one possibility. It's exactly what it is. They're dealing with a type of ancient human. They come along and they see a pattern and they do what we would do they rearrange it or have a little fun with it, to communicate. So that's the sort of type of thing that I saw.
Speaker 2:It's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is very interesting and, I have to say, in this subject area, the data seem very consistent from the West Coast to the East Coast in terms of the languages. By the way, the Flash of Beauty crew the people who made Flash of Beauty films are coming out with episodes three and four. Two new movies. Three and four new. Two new movies. The third one is about voices in the wilderness. That's what it's called voices in the wilderness. This is the first movie ever documenting the recording of this big foot speech which ron moorehead and the others in this hunting structure in the 70s uh were able to. They went up, you know, eight miles up on horseback. They brought in the best recording equipment available in the 70s cassette recording equipment, Big mics, put them in the hunting structure and got these conversations. The Voices in the Wilderness is about that whole area and there's a Kickstarter up for it right now. So that should be something we'll be able to see eventually, to see eventually.
Speaker 1:And they created one about indigenous people's experience Native Americans, Alaska and other places and I saw some previews from that, Steve, of this fourth movie I don't know what it's called yet A Flash of Beauty, something the Native American experience or something like that, and these were some pretty chilling encounters.
Speaker 1:We shouldn't imagine that the Sasquatch are always friendly, and in some more remote regions they seem to want to be left alone and sometimes they're very good at throwing rocks and they can be hostile too.
Speaker 1:Of types of Sasquatch encounters, just like with people, are a very wide range of encounters. These ones from Alaska are often hostile. In fact, Native Americans I know from Alaska won't even tell me what they call them up there out of fear of sort of summoning them by using the name. They will tell me another name that is kind of like that, but not what they call it, because they don't want to encounter them, because it usually means one of their tribes getting abducted. These are common stories I've spoken to Navajo about this also where they'll take a child away for a while and then bring them back a couple of years later and they have become kind of they've forgotten their initial and they have become kind of they've forgotten their initial original language. They become more like they haven't been harmed, They've just been culturally transformed into Sasquatch-type people and then they eventually, you know, leave or come back on their own or whatever, and there's many cases of that in Native American lore Right yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I do. I think we really have to realize that there's something going on out there in the world, and whether they're friendly, non-friendly, that's a whole other story. I have heard stories of throwing rocks and that they're very good at throwing rocks and if they start throwing, rocks, you better run.
Speaker 1:Yes, now I should say something about that. It can be a playful type of rock throwing. Yeah, they just throw pebbles at your tent all night and you don't get a lot of sleep. I heard cases and I'll put up some videos about this on my YouTube channel. My YouTube channel is Fractal Friend. One word, or you can just put in my name.
Speaker 1:Barb Shoup was telling me, and I recorded this. She said what had happened other times. They'd been up there. They were around this campfire area and pebbles were being thrown at them. They didn't hurt or anything, but then a big one came in and hit their water bottles farther away. Perfect accuracy.
Speaker 1:Now, what does that in the woods? What can throw rocks? Laterally, horizontally, rocks coming across, not falling down from somewhere, and hit exactly what they're aiming for time after time again, what does that? I mean the squirrels don't throw rocks, you know. Deer don't throw rocks, bear don't do that. So what are you really left with? No one ever sees anything throwing the rocks.
Speaker 1:By the way, in all these accounts, steve, I have never actually and I've spoken to friends this has happened to up in the Rocky Mountain National Park near Estes Park. This was a large rock. This woman who described this to me was walking with her friend in single file. They weren't that far apart and a rock came exactly equidistant between them. She said it was a baseball size. It knocked the woman down behind her just from the proximity. She wasn't hit by it, it was just so close. She was startled and fell and they looked and they couldn't see anything there. I mean, if humans throw rocks and they're that accurate, you're going to see them. Ok, they can't throw rocks that accurately from way out there even a pitcher but you're going to see them because they're not that far, but they no one ever sees what's doing this. So I heard examples like this happen even at the place where we were camping. The rock throwing is a pretty yeah, that's another piece of evidence, steve, that's very consistent. And any Sasquatch you want to talk about, they're good at throwing rocks.
Speaker 2:And if you think about it, the brainpower, the intelligence it takes to take a rock and use it for some kind of forget about weapon, for some kind of use to an end, to scare people off, to hurt them out of fear. Whatever is gives you an idea of the intelligence very intelligent very controlled.
Speaker 1:Um, vast majority of people aren't hurt by these rocks, but they come close enough to make you feel like you could have been hurt, though there are cases I'm not going to sugarcoat this there are cases of people getting concussions, having to go to the hospital. They never told people what caused it. They didn't think anyone would believe them. They just said, well, I tripped on the trail and hit my head. But what they really described is you know, the rock came in and hit your head and they're pretty big rocks and they're fast. They're, like you know, pitcher speed and softball sized and they can be bigger. Uh, the one in the flash of beauty movie there were fred roll described. It was, uh, he said, basketball sized. If he hadn't moved out of the way at the last minute he kind of slipped, it would have yeah, it would have taken off his head, but that was a pretty. You know, that was a pretty antagonistic encounter. We'll talk about it more another time. There's a whole range of encounters, but one other feature I should say about them, steve, that's very interesting that people want to watch out, for they're excellent mimics of any sound they've ever heard.
Speaker 1:Tom Powell, an author from the Seattle area has written a book called the Locals and Others. He said at the Kalispell Conference in Montana a year ago that it's like they have a hard drive in their chest and any sound they've ever heard they can reproduce it perfectly. I mean car doors, tires screeching. Ron Moorhead, at the Sierra Camp, described metallic sounds.
Speaker 1:A lot of people hear metallic sounds. It sounds like they're throwing your pots and pans around but when you come out nothing's been moved and of course they're very good at imitating you or your dog barking. It'll be a little slightly off If you listen carefully. People usually say it sounded like a pretty big owl not a perfect, but close and they can trick people sometimes into thinking it's their relatives or something. And you start walking in that direction and get lost. So they have an excellent mimicry ability, which goes to your point about the intelligence is they know how to trick people, if they want to, into you thinking it's a their animal or it's a relative or your dog or you. People have even heard themselves calling for their dog coming from the forest near where they live. When they're inside, the dog's inside and someone's mimicking them, calling their dog.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny because that's very similar to a visual camouflage is an audio camouflage Great.
Speaker 1:You know, that's a very good point. It's a similar sort of thing. Audio camouflage, visual cam goes together, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah it goes together, and I know for some people listening right now this must seem unbelievable. You must think that I've gone off my rocker or something. But I would just say to people don't believe myself or Steve. Do your own research, Get your own books. There are plenty of good books out there on the topic. Make your own mind up. Read some of these accounts from witnesses you can see them on Facebook pages Mysterious Creatures, I think, is one of them and just read these accounts and you decide what you think about this, because I think you'll be surprised at the numbers of people that have encountered these types of entities. It's not just Bigfoot, Steve. There's other types of creatures out there that we don't really even have names for.
Speaker 2:So it's funny, before we started this conversation, simeon and I, today, he had heard because I had told someone yesterday that a friend of mine in Westchester had seen what he thought was a Bigfoot-like creature on his farm. It's 40 or 50 acres, it's predominantly wooded, and his daughter had filmed the video of this creature and it was in a place they don't do not usually go. And when you look at the video can you see what it is? You know, you hear this story all the time, not really, but you kind of see something staring back at you and you say to yourself this is Westchester County in New York. It's not a gorilla, what the hell is it?
Speaker 2:And then, after further exploration and I've seen those pictures as well in New York, it's not a gorilla, what the hell is it? And then, after further exploration and I've seen those pictures as well they found some stick kind of shelters, yeah, which I've seen pictures of in other places. So he really believes it's a big. Did it look anything like that? It wasn't that sophisticated, it was just less. It was less, it was on an angle on a tree but just not as many.
Speaker 2:Maybe it was in the early stages, so last night we were talking about it with him and he didn't have the video with him, or else I would have showed it to you today. He we looked up where they keep track of Bigfoot sightings and strangely enough, there was a documented Bigfoot sighting in the exact same place that he saw, allegedly what he saw so he's not the only one that saw it in the same town, in the same area you are talking the bfro site.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is. It's a research organization. Yeah, so bfro dot, I think it's dot net. Uh, I don't know where he looked.
Speaker 2:He showed me he was like somebody else saw it too.
Speaker 1:They have a database BFRO Bigfoot Researchers Organization and people can report their sightings there and BFRO will send out trained investigators to talk to you. They want to make sure these are real reports. So, reflecting what you're saying, steve, I checked the BFRO database and there was one sighting in Westchester a number of years ago. In very northern Westchester I don't know if we're talking about the same area by a lake. It was two off-duty police officers in a rowboat and they described what they thought were chimps at the edge of the water. They didn't know what else to describe them as. Really, I don't know if that's the same one.
Speaker 2:No, this is about a lake. I mean, it's very wooded, it's very hilly, it's dense, where people don't walk, there are no paths, and on the edge of this there's another structure that a renter rents on his property and they had, for some reason, his daughter was summoned to go over there and she saw it. Well, there you go, and these are. You know his daughter, you know he's an educated guy. He doesn't believe in anything.
Speaker 1:You know he's an educated guy. He doesn't believe in anything. His daughter is a nurse and you know a mother and it's I know her well and I she's not somebody that would even remotely have a belief about something like this. No, I totally get it. I got to tell you.
Speaker 1:I know a nurse out in Idaho who told me that some of the old time loggers that she treated in the hospital that she cared for from the 40s and 50s when they were loggers way back, described seeing creatures moving in and around trees that they couldn't explain where they went. They would go around a tree and you wouldn't see them again. And they had all said they never told their bosses at the logging companies about this right, because they want to keep their logging jobs and they want people to think you're not. So yes, people experience this, steve, as we know, but they are just very hesitant. We have to qualify it the way you qualify them.
Speaker 1:These are people that don't believe it. I know the whole spiel because initially, when you first hear this, you think seriously. But in my case, you know years and years of listening to witnesses describe their experiences and looking at the similarities between their descriptions and that sense of shock, thinking well, what could this be? Are there gorillas in this area? No, we're not in Africa. Could it be an escaped gorilla from a circus, a traveling circus? This is what goes through people's minds, steve.
Speaker 2:But gorillas wouldn't be smart enough to stay hidden. No, they would engage, they would look for food, they would you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're not going to be hidden, they're used to it. If they're from a zoo or a circus, they're used to being taken care of. They're going to look for their meals? Yeah, it doesn't fit. But our minds have all these ways and I'm sure you're familiar with this. You know being familiar with, you know the law and dealing with witnesses. Our minds have all sorts of ways of confabulating experiences to make them fit with what we expect to see and it can distort your memory. The flashy beauty Bigfoot revealed movie actually goes into this with psychological profession.
Speaker 2:Visually and audio. You don't think like you hear something that you don't.
Speaker 1:Right and you could even forget about it entirely, unless you had a skilled professional going through every aspect of the memory. Maybe hypnosis would be required. Whatever works, you might have suppressed the memory. In the case of Bigfoot-type witnesses, steve, I have heard it can happen within 10 or 15 minutes of a sighting. You could have forgotten about it because your defense mechanisms in your brain right are so strong they can literally suppress things that you don't have a box to fit that experience into. I'm sure this happens with people's violent encounters with criminals too. It's just so sudden, unexpected, it's very hard to even to what's happened. And this happens with Bigfoot witnesses. Sometimes their friend mentions that again as soon as they got home and the memory comes back. So this is a very challenging subject to talk about. We all have a lot of defense mechanisms. We all have this feeling we don't want to look like idiots in front of our peer humans, our neighbors and colleagues and friends. So this affects the witness's ability to talk about what they've experienced and people like you and me that maybe haven't experienced it directly processing it.
Speaker 1:In my case it took years and I consider myself an open-minded person. You know I did write this book called Opening Minds, even my mind, steve. Being graduate school trained, you're naturally skeptical of things and it took, in my case, years to hearing this and going to conferences, talking to people and all of a sudden you have this realization oh F? They're real. It really hits you suddenly one day, talking to witnesses, that this has been real the whole time In case. That's my experience, steve. But again, I encourage people to do their own research. You don't have to believe us. Come up with your own conclusions. If you think these are wild men, as they used to call them, hairy men or, you know, escaped gorillas, whatever intellectual alibi kind of works for you, I mean whatever, you have to make your own mind up about it. But I think if you do your research you're going to find out thousands and thousands of witnesses, sightings just in the US, native American descriptions from hundreds of different tribes going back hundreds and hundreds of years.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great place to leave it. Can you just give us your YouTube videos and your websites or any information, if anybody would like to follow Sure?
Speaker 1:you can find my books on my blog, newcrystalmindcom. I have all my books and links for people to get them if they want them signed Dark Matter, monsters and Black Swan, ghosts and other books, planetary Intelligence and things about China becoming more aware of how reality really works. So you can go to New Crystal Mind. So you can go to New Crystal Mind. I have a YouTube channel that's very popular where I post videos of lectures and I create talks for the YouTube channel. You can just look it up under my name or fractal friend, and I have a Patreon page you could look that up to from my blog Dark Matter Mysteries, great. So that's how you get in contact with me. Sure, all right.
Speaker 2:Great Well, I thank you so much. I'm sure we're going to have other conversations about this and other things. I appreciate you coming on this ever-changing podcast about all different topics, history, ideas, things we're trying to learn about the world around us through a New Yorker's poor, uneducated eye. Thank you so much talk to you soon, thank you.
